Patch impressions
I’ve had a chance to play a few SupCom matches since the patch came out yesterday, and I think I am now in a position to write a bit about some of my early impressions. The first thing most people have probably noticed are the substantial overall performance improvements. I would recommend that everyone try turning their graphics settings up, as the game definitely is running a lot smoother, especially during large battles. Many people, here and on the official forums, have reported very large performance boosts, so this is very good news indeed.
There are several improvements, that, while minor, are really valuable additions to the game. First off, you can now assist quantum gateways simply by mousing over them, like all other buildings. Having to use the assist button every time you wanted to speed up SCU production (which happens in every game that lasts more than a few minutes) was a bit annoying, and I am glad this is fixed. Also, SCUs now show up as idle in the same way that T1, T2, and T3 engineers did before the patch. This should make micromanaging all those hordes of SCUs a bit easier. In addition, the Cybran destroyers now behave properly and don’t try to walk across land unless you specifically tell them to move onto land. They also move much faster while on the ground. This should make amphibious destroyer assaults a lot more viable. Finally, anti-air defense now prioritizes bombers and gunships properly, which should remove the need to micromanage AA during large battles.
There have been substantial balance improvements to various parts of the game. Frigates now have more than double the hitpoints they had prior to the patch, and have been improved in other ways too. The three faction’s subs have been rebalanced, so hopefully the Aeon sub is no longer hideously overpowered. Finally, tech 2 units have been improved in general and now seem to be substantially more powerful.
The one piece of bad news I currently have is that the tech 2 vs tech 3 rebalancing does not seem to have been enough. While tech 3 factories are more expensive, siege bots are slightly weaker, and tech 2 seems slightly stronger, these changes are relatively small, and I still do not anticipate seeing much in the way of tech 2 battles in competitive multiplayer. I hope I am proven wrong on this, but I suspect that in most cases players will still rush to siege bots for their overwhelming stopping power.
A quick note before I forget: As reader bob pointed out yesterday in the patch announcement thread, where is the map editor? It does not seem to be included in the patch. Perhaps it is coming out on Wednesday? I certainly hope so, as I think we have already waited far too long for this important tool.
That is it for my initial impressions. More detailed discussion of the changes, especially the balance related ones, will have to wait until we have more time to test things out.
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:22 pm
Regarding what you say about still skipping t2 is completely wrong imo. I think that we will see mostly t2 battles now. So instead having 2,5 stages(t1, quick t2, t3) now we have 1 to 1,5(quick t1, t2, sometimes t3). As it takes enormous eco and time to get to t3. Try doing it on winters or theta you will just be overrun with t2. But maybe its not that bad(i hope not).
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:44 pm
I was only able to play two games last night but I didn’t actually notice any performance increase. I think someone else in the games went overboard turning up settings and slowing me down; I didn’t change any of my settings and the game actually ran slower.
The most significant improvement I noticed was the projectile path test. Not only is this amazing for Rhinos and Cerebuses but I noticed that in water maps with cliffs destroyers would fire into the cliffs more often then not. Now they don’t!
Also regarding T2 vs. T3, it was stated that T2 was buffed against T1 which does seem to be the case from what I’ve seen so far. T3 was nerfed against PDs and commanders but not so much against T2.
I think the idea now is that if you skipp T2 you’ll be overrun by your opponent’s T1 as his T2 rips appart your T1. If you do get to T3 before the game is over it will still kill your opponent’s T1 and T2 you won’t be able to gun straight for the comm kill as easily.
Therefore, we should see some of each tier in most games that don’t end early and valid strategies for pushing with each tier. It would be just as bad to have an obsolete T3 as it was to have an obsolete T2.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:11 pm
Hmmm when the patch was installing something named ‘editor.scd’ caught my eye… perhaps it’s pre-installing components for the upcoming map editor?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:16 pm
lefeu: I hope you are right. I do think that on some of the more micro maps (read: Winter Duel) T2 will probably play a much larger role. However, on larger maps with more resources, I don’t think T2 units will have the killing power to really be a threat to base defenses, and so players will probably mostly still skip to T3. I guess it remains to be seen though.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:19 pm
I think we were duped. Check the unit database (supcom.hacked.in). Hardly anything has changed in T2 ground units. The Obsidian (Aeon T2 tank) shoots faster but does less DPS and its shield uses less energy. The Rhino got a DPS boost. The Pillar’s projectiles shoot faster and do little more splash. Nothing else changed in T2. Everything costs the same and moves the same speed. All T2 tanks did get a turning rate buff, but that’s about it; all missile launchers are exactly the same. So, when they tell use T2 was retuned to be better against T1 units, pretty much the only thing that happened is tanks can turn and shoot faster.
The cost of T3 was upped, but not by much. Factories cost 3360 mass and 23520 energy to build while they used to cost 2800 and 19600. Harbs cost 30 more mass and 240 more energy. Loyalists actually cost 30 and 60 less. The Titan costs 40 and 240 more, but at least its turret turns twice as fast now. The Titan costs the least mass and the Loyalist is now the same mass as the Harb. If T2 were really buffed and was actually coming into play, that would make the missile diverting on the Loyalist OP, I’m sure. I haven’t played online yet but in skirmishes I was able to get to T3 at the same time as I did before the patch; I didn’t have to worry about my economy any more than I used to.
The most notable change that I’ve seen thus far is the T2 PD buffs. The Oblivion is awesome now - leads targets, 600 damage per shot, shoots every 4 seconds, and doesn’t really miss ever. T2 vs T3 is probably still not a very fair fight given the huge health differences and the lack of making them more expensive, unless a turning rate increase makes that big of a difference. T3 vs T2 PD is another story altogether, at least for non-Cybran. Their PD was not changed at all, so in effect it was nerfed against the others’ buffs.
And I guess the bomber physics is pretty cool and useful too. They drop their bombs way in advance now so things are more realistic, and this could mean they are much more effective. We’ll have to see, though.
The performance increases are nice, as is the cartographic minimap. I haven’t noticed too much in the way of pathfinding changes since units still get into formation poorly and move in straight lines rather than together more often than not.
But at least they renamed the Cybran T2 PD to Cerberus like it was supposed to be, amirite?!
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:45 pm
Patch summary: Did not affectively address some major issues. Did not include the map editor.
Added a few nice things. Fixed a few things. Balanced a few things.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:07 pm
I think the T2 tank improvements work as advirtised: improved rate of fire and maneuverability (as well as the splash damage for the Pillar) make them more effective against masses of T1 units. That is all it does, and this matches the patch notes. There was no mention of buffing T2 against T3.
Performance improvements on my machine (a single core P4 w/2GB RAM) are very substantial, I noticed vastly improved framerates even towards endgame where normally my machine would start to crawl. This is probably my biggest benefit from the patch, along with some long-needed UEF buffs (I play UEF exclusively).
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:19 pm
T2A:
T2 tanks have received a significant overall movement increase. Their acceleration is roughly double what it was before, and they no longer have to stop to change direction (the UEF T1 Striker, while not getting the acceleration buff, got the latter as well). The nerf to Siege bot Acceleration is very telling, and greatly affects their ability to micro around T2 units and PD, which was formerly a big advantage. Try it!
The Obsidian is the most buffed of all the T2 tanks. In exchange for 15 DPS it got:
45->60 Turret Yaw speed
100 HP
-15 energy drain on shield
40% ROF boost
Not to mention all the movement buffs the other T2 tanks got.
I agree that the econ nerf to T3 land facs are not a barrier to T3 rush, but T2 buffs certainly are.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:18 pm
The Editor will come with the next GPGNet patch (and Mapvault), so don’t worry.
The best of the patch, the huge performance boost I get. Now I can play with constant framerates.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Here’s the thing - when SupCom originally came out, the “general consensus” was that aeon ruled, and cybran and UEF both sucked. Most people played aeon. Incidentally, when obisidons had the -20 energy drain, they were not useable at all. Since everyone played aeon, they chalked it up to “Well tier2 sucks, just jump to tier3.” Now as weeks passed, you’ll notice that lots of top players either switched to cybran, or new cybran players started finding their way into the high ranks. Obviously, cybran doesn’t suck like everyone initially said they did. Something else interesting that started popping up was that these cybrans (best example I can think of is TheBigOne), began utilizing T2, including rhinos. Unlike the obsidion, rhinos were actually useable. Note that this is all in the last version, mind you. To me this indicates that we didn’t need massive changes, it seems like the changes they did implement are pretty spot on. Obsidions got fixed, UEF got fixed (not even having the option to use ghetto gunships was pretty crippling). I think T2 will get its fair share of use now, especially on smaller maps.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:40 pm
I can’t find anywhere to download the patch. Do you have to login to GPG and have it patch automatically?
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:26 pm
ditotoxx: Don’t forget that the aura was the reason most top players played Aeon (harbingers helped too) and that they only started switching to Cybran when water maps were removed from the rotation.
It’s been pretty widely accepted that Cybran had the best T2 and the worst T3 pre-patch. However keep in mind that in most of TheBigOne’s T2 replays were against an opponent who also tried to use T2 (probably in preparation for the patch).
May 22nd, 2007 at 5:09 pm
fo’shizzle!
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:19 pm
One thing I don’t get: what does “persistent build mode” do in the video options?
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Terse: I could be wrong but I think it makes build mode back who it was so “B” only turns on build mode not off. But then again why would that be in the video options.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:58 pm
I think if you turn off persistent build mode it’ll revert to normal mode after every structure you tell the engineer or whatever to build. I guess the reasoning behind it is you have a quick two-key way of getting to a certain structure and you don’t have to worry about turning it off afterwards.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:41 pm
I hate the new symbols. especially for scouts and radar. i hate them. hate
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:42 pm
oh, sorry for the double post… but i love everything else
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 pm
The patch can be downloaded from MegaGames if nowhere else:
http://megagames.com/news/html/patches/supremecommanderv113251patch.shtml
I was worried that they were only going to release it over GPGNet.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:32 pm
GPG forums are down :(
phpBB : Critical Error
Could not connect to the database
May 23rd, 2007 at 1:42 am
you are all forgetting an important thing. soul rippers = best experimentals. theyre cheap and theyre fast and they do massive ground damage. a single soul ripper can easilly take out shields, then sams, then everything else. imagine what a team of them could do. go ahead and try.
May 23rd, 2007 at 2:25 am
Hey everyone, have been reading the site since March, first time poster. I know the patch notes didn’t say anything about changing the ACU/SCU upgrade mechanics, but I was disappointed by the lack of changes here. Creating a team of Cybran combat SCUs still takes approximately 5,000000 hours of micro. I’m starting to think this is intentional, to prevent them from being more utilized. Plus the fact that subs and torpedo bombers still can’t target Aeon engineers (or Auroras) because the float over the water and not in it is unfair in Aeon’s favor. Just thoughts so far, going to play more tonight.
May 23rd, 2007 at 2:42 am
@ Parasiterex:
1) The upgrade system has always been tedious, but think about what you get for it - a bunch of pretty unbeatable units with crazy regen. I don’t think they did it purposely to impose micro but that they just couldn’t or didn’t have time to think of a better upgrade system amongst everything else they were doing. A new system would help everyone out, not just people looking to put multiple upgrades on multiple units.
2) They buffed frigates so it’s easy to deal with floaty Aeon things. If you’re at a point in the game where you have subs you can certainly have frigates, and given that their health has been boosted some 2.5x what it was, they are no longer worthless.
I’ve just played a couple games through GPGnet - a custom 1v1 since I’ve been getting desyncs and then a ranked… I won my first ranked on the patch! D: Some things that worried me were:
1) My bombers missed by overshooting the targets like whoa. WTF? Aeon bombers are supposed to be accurate but with low splash. Having them miss is stupid and makes their tiny bombs pretty worthless.
2) My T1 units seemed to take much longer to get where they were going. Dunno what that was all about. They seemed to be moving in slow motion and it took forever to push all the T1 units I had into his base (on the circular arctic map). I had siege bots pumping out by that time so I don’t know what was going on there.
Counter to my predictions about the patch, Oblivions weren’t unstoppable. My opponent got three of them up and I took them out without much worry. They did get quite a few kills in the meantime, but they did go down without pressing too hard into them. Then again, I did take out his stationary radar and he had no land scouts, so that may have had an effect. ^___^
May 23rd, 2007 at 4:01 am
Played a few custom games last night, and if anything, I noticed a decrease in performance on large maps (3vs3). Not sure if it was caused by other (didn’t check console) but I had severe drops in frame rate in the early game. I have a Core2Duo with ATI 1900XT and 2GB Ram and never had anything like this that early ina game before the patch.
May 23rd, 2007 at 4:26 am
It looks like the engine optimizations were in large part for those with single-core processors. My machine runs ninjtastically well compared to pre-patch.
May 23rd, 2007 at 6:59 am
Definite performance improvement for me. Pre-patch, I couldn’t use my 2nd monitor because it would turn the game into a slideshow - now, with geographical mode = nice playable framerate. Hooray for that!
Haven’t tested everything in detail yet, but the overall impression is positive. As a cybran player, I have the feeling that the Loyalist now can keep up better with other siege bots. Nerfing the firerate of our TMLs is fine with me, because it honestly was a bit to strong before. So, yes, from my limited experience, the game feels a bit more balanced.
But on weird negative point I noticed: The gemini is even worse now, and it has allready been totally useless before the patch. Why has it been nerved again? This makes no sense.
May 23rd, 2007 at 10:29 pm
I am not a fan
MODIFY ‘bin\SupremeCommander.exe’
Error Old File not found. However, a file of the same name was
found. No update done since file contents do not match.
System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Specified argument was out of the range of valid values.
Parameter name: i
at System.Text.RegularExpressions.CaptureCollection.GetCapture(Int32 i)
at System.Text.RegularExpressions.CaptureCollection.get_Item(Int32 i)
at GPG.Globalization.LocalizeString.Get(String data, Object[] paramdata)
at GPG.Globalization.LocalizeString.Get(String data)
at GPG.Patch.StringTable.get_Abort()
at GPG.Patch.RTPatchAPI.Start(String options, String updateDirectory, String patchFile)
at GPG.Patch.ApplyPatch.ThreadMethod()
Access to the path ‘D:\Games\Supreme Commander\Supreme Commander\bin\patchw32.gpg.dll’ is denied.
May 23rd, 2007 at 10:34 pm
Delete all mods you may have installed and revert any modified files back to the originals. The patch won’t work otherwise. Mine was giving me the same error because I’d renamed the Resource Rich mod within gamedata/mods.scd.
May 24th, 2007 at 2:38 am
T2A’: 2) They buffed frigates so it’s easy to deal with floaty Aeon things. If you’re at a point in the game where you have subs you can certainly have frigates, and given that their health has been boosted some 2.5x what it was, they are no longer worthless.
This doesnt really help, aeon players can surround your island with t1 and you wont get a chance to build any frigates, which is just a ridiculous situation really. It means players of other races are forced to build a naval yard almost immediately on water maps if they want to have a chance of using boats for the rest of the game. Then you are left with building a frigate to defend against auroras, or building a sub to defend against an aeon sub, where an incorrect choice means you’re effectively locked out of the water.
That said, i was playing on four corners when this happened, maybe larger maps wont have the same problems.
May 24th, 2007 at 1:05 pm
i really love the cybran destroyer now, they’re like tech 2 mini-fatboys. i find them hugely useful on Seton’s Clutch.
May 24th, 2007 at 1:29 pm
You lucky bastards, here I am in California, far away from my SupCom-capable machine, typing this out on a BlackBerry. How I wish I could play right now. Ah well. I’ll be back in six days, and hopefully everyone won’t have pulled far ahead of me in playing under the new patch regime by then. Seeya eventually.