A review of the new map Liberiam Battles
I’d like to start a series of articles on the current ranked maps lineup because it is a real mix. There are some really good and some really bad… and today I’m going to start off with what I believe is the worst: Liberiam Battles. Now, I’d like to make very clear that this article is my opinion only, and I welcome arguments for or against it.
It is a 20×20 8 player map, with four land masses each with two starting locations. The landmasses are divided by water and there is a sizable body of water in the center of the map. 20×20 maps really don’t belong in ranked play in my opinion. They don’t scale very well in a 1v1 game compared to the 5×5 and 10×10 maps, and unless they have very good options for lots of ground battles they tend to stalemate relatively quickly. I would say Emerald Crater was an exception to this as it allowed for lots of furiuos play early on. Liberiam Battles, however, is awful. Each of the landmasses are a labyrinth of cliffs and passes with mexes liberally scattered all over. Even just claiming and upgrading all the mexes on your starting land mass is a chore, let alone taking either of the open landmasses. Moving armies around on your landmass is even more annoying as pathing is difficult with all the crags and cliffs.
The dark atmosphere and lighting gives the map a dreary feel that might be ok for campaign missions but makes the map depressing and boring for long grinding 1v1 games. The fortress-like nature of the landmasses tends to encourage turtling and building up to the high tech levels over a long period of time. Not that this is a bad thing if that’s what you want to do, but for someone hoping to play a quick ranked game and move on it can be a nightmare.
Thanks to the new Forged Alliance gameplay the map has at least some life to it. Capturing the open land masses does yield a nice advantage in mass income and if done early can give you an huge lead so that you can mercifully kill your opponent quickly. Halfway decent players will both utilize air transports to each grab portions of them, leading to fighting on the flanks while both players build up their home bases. Eventually the game will be decided by experientals or nukes but most likely not for a while. Even defeating a completely out-classed opponent can easily take a half hour as attacks take forever to cross the gigantic map.
My advice if you draw this map is to utilize air to a very heavy degree. Use air transports to secure the side continents and then use your superior mass income to send a flood of air transports with units to the other continent and try to kill your opponent early. UEF have a huge advantage in this regard with their Continental transports and hefty T3 lineup. The large size of the land masses makes it impossible to defend all of them early on, so your enemy is bound to have a weak spot somewhere (most likely several) where you can land troops and engineers. If the game does get drawn out, don’t bother putting a lot of mass into building defenses all over the place, instead use an early mass advantage to get a good T3 farm economy going and keep your enemy off balance with constant pressure allowing you to eventually deliver a killing strike.
Overall the gameplay on Liberiam Battles can offer some interesting strategic situations and tactical choices between competent players, but the sheer size of the map, its dreary atmosphere, and terrain dominated by cliffs and water makes the map a chore to play. It is completely out of place with most of the other ranked maps in terms of speed of gameplay, ruining an otherwise relatively good lineup (Thawing Glacier is unfortunately quite similar in this regard). I can see this map being fun in a 2v2 or even a 2v2v2v2 custom game, with more of the map filled up, but don’t expect the game to go quickly. It’s not that the map shouldn’t exist, but it should certainly NOT exist in the ranked play lineup.
This map is thumbs down for me, and I would encourage everyone else to thumbs-down it as well. Save yourself the agony of a long dreary game and lets hope this one gets pulled from the lineup soon and replaced with White Fire or something similarly fun.
As a minor footnote, I just want to say I find it odd that GPG didn’t develop any 15×15 maps. This size seems like it would scale better as a “large” 1v1 map than the 20×20 maps.
November 21st, 2007 at 4:07 am
this map blows
November 21st, 2007 at 4:45 am
Completely and utterly agree with you. I was hoping for 15×15 maps instead of more of those huge maps too. We’ll just have to hope that GPG removes this map from the ranked rotation soon.
November 21st, 2007 at 5:16 am
I agree with you … Long games in ranked suxx, but gpg may have done this map to increase the 2v2 possibilities too…
November 21st, 2007 at 5:17 am
Thanks for taking time to write these posts, I have fun reading them!
November 21st, 2007 at 5:49 am
well, who playes ranked and who will run for the top 100 or top 10 had also to enforce on that map and not just on 5×5 maps. remember this is supcom(FA). i really cant understand ppl want to play just small land maps, go for Nr1 in ranked ladder and say they r the best. all they r is the best on 5×5 landmaps and this dont reflects there skill about the completly bandwidth supcom had to offer.
there is 1 (in words ONE) Map of the size of 20×20 so whats the matter ? it is ok and it brings alternation. beside that u have the option to thump it down.
sorry for the bad english
November 21st, 2007 at 10:38 am
I agree with Hoschie.
Supreme Commander Forged Alliance has sped up game play and forces for map control. It’s meant for epic sized battles that aren’t over in the flash of a pan.
It’s not just about ZOMG this map will take more than 10 minutes to win on WTF Remove. It’s about actually enjoying the game throughout, which dare I say a lot more than just the top 100 players prefer.
I am all for entertaining fast small maps for “pro” match ups but there is also the turtles and methodical players to think about.
November 21st, 2007 at 6:47 pm
I totally agree with Engineer on this one!
I have this map “down” myself and every time I start on it I offer a draw (which smart people would accept in my point of view).
This map is absolutly no fun at all. As Engineer said, until some real “action” happens, over half an hour can pass. The idea of playing competetive 1on1 in FA (or any other game) is not waiting 30 minutes to build up a base and expand over the map. Very good games need to have action in the first 5 minutes!
I think what Hoschie and Deman did not realise was that there is nothing wrong with big maps in FA at all. The problem is that there are maps designed for 8 players occurring in a 1on1 ladder. It would be the same as playing a 4on4 on a 5×5 km² map designed for 1on1 matches (with just having 8 starting spots), ending in t1 spam and comm rushing all the time.
Another aspect to consider is that 20×20 km² maps have a high risk to “lag” in the late game. I would expect many games to slow down after half an hour and be crippled after one hour, when both players have reached unit cap with mostly air units.
Yes, I love to see T3 in games and yes I want games to take more then 10 minutes, but hell yes I also want to see non stop action throughout the entire game. So far one of the best games ever played was BlueScreen vs Sir_Loui in the first 5000 Dollar tournament on Finns. That was one of the most intense games I have ever seen and it had really everything to it this game can have.
I dont think competetive gameplay on any map bigger then designed for 2on2 will ever be good at all. Not in this game and not in any other game to come.
Also dont misunderstand this post for “pro small maps vs large maps”. All I say is:
Please dont put maps not designed for 1on1\2on2 in the 1on1 ranked game pool! - no matter the size!
November 21st, 2007 at 10:28 pm
Well I was going to write a long comment but Melkor (of Melkor ISU fame?) pretty much summed it up for me. I have nothing against the map itself, it has every right to exist. I also agree that ranked play should be more than just brief slugfests that are over in 10 minutes. However, the larger the map and the more starting points there are, the game takes exponentially longer and longer until you reach a point where you are sinking 30-60 minutes into a game that is probably not even that much fun. I have a wife, a kid, and a job, and I don’t always have very long to play. I want to know that if I sit down to play a ranked game it will generally be over in 30 minutes, sometimes a bit longer but usually much shorter.
The argument that the top ladder players should have to prove themselves at all levels of FA play is a purist’s argument. It sounds nice, but in practice it just doesn’t work out that well. After all, thats what custom games are for. Ranked play should be more standardized in my opinion.
That said, Deman, Hoschie, thanks for bringing up some opposing points! I appreciate anything that contributes to meaningfun discussion on this website, and I welcome constructive dialog and debate. I’m not saying you guys are wrong, you just have a different view of what ranked play should be.
November 22nd, 2007 at 5:45 am
Like I said, the ranked ladder map rotation is for the xxxx amount of players not just the top 100. Some of us enjoy the large map challenges.
For a true 1v1 competition ranking does not cut it. A league is required, then we can debate what “pro” maps should be in the list. Something one of the leagues like ESL, TheSGL, SupCom-Live or even GPG need to consider. Leagues and Divisions is the only way for a truely proffesional league of top players.
But thats getting side tracked :)
November 22nd, 2007 at 10:18 am
Hello everyone,
Concerning the choice of maps I seem to recall that a similar position was taken by other players against field of Isis in the good old days. Although I have this map thumbed down myself, I still think that some large maps are actually appropriate for 1 vs. 1 ranked games.
Most small maps are won through a combination of spamming, early economy and map control skills and will never move beyond tier 2 unless both players have matching strengths (or both play defensively). Larger maps can reward other set of skills such as transiting to a tier 3 economy and army (not as easy as shifting to tier 2), defensive counter measures against tier 1 spam and reclaiming destroyed enemy armies.
Those games are not won as quickly and as decisively as small maps but they do offer different (and ultimately interesting) play styles. They add to the complexity of the game and force us to think in new patterns. So while I don’t particularly like that map, I still like the fact that the game throws me in situations that I do not always expect or work in my favor because they force me to think outside my usual comfort zone. In the end it’s the fact that I feel that I’m discovering something new each time that I play that makes me come back again and again ;)
November 28th, 2007 at 4:55 pm
I also don’t think it’s a good 1v1 map for the rotation. I do enjoy the occasional 1v1 game on a large map, but I would like notification ahead of time. Sometimes I don’t have time for a real long game. I also only enjoy playing people who are skilled on large maps. Often times on a large map I will notice that the other player is a noob (by their greatly lower score) and I will try to end the game quick, as I don’t want to waste time playing a game I know I can win. The problem is that on large maps this is hard to do. It is for this reason that I don’t like large maps, not becasue I don’t think they are fun. If I have to play a noob, I want to end it quickly because there is usually no challenge/fun when playing a noob (Not that I’m the best of players, I am using relative terms here :) ),
November 29th, 2007 at 10:54 pm
well i like the large maps! and if i decide to play a ranked game i MAKE sure that i have @ least a hour free! just in case ive plaied SUPCOM ‘fields of isis’ and ive had V’s Noob games that are over in 30min, ive also had games against very evenly matched players that have draged on for over 3 hours! so im sorry ranked matches are not a 5-30 min affair specialy if i know someones rank and i KNOW im gonna get plasted i will fortify like hell and dig in to @ least make the other player work for their kill!