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	<title>Comments on: Chris Taylor pushes &#8220;secure computing&#8221; as solution to piracy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/</link>
	<description>Forging new Alliances daily</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:30:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: zordon</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-19138</link>
		<dc:creator>zordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 05:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-19138</guid>
		<description>Their costs are reduced far more than the price has dropped.  I believe they'd make more money overall selling more copes for less dollars.  After all the distribution system can handle it now.  Times have changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Their costs are reduced far more than the price has dropped.  I believe they&#8217;d make more money overall selling more copes for less dollars.  After all the distribution system can handle it now.  Times have changed.</p>
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		<title>By: H-master</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18884</link>
		<dc:creator>H-master</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:51:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18884</guid>
		<description>I tottaly agree with the writer of the text. Punnish the legal buyers for piracy? :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tottaly agree with the writer of the text. Punnish the legal buyers for piracy? :(</p>
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		<title>By: Woden</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18868</link>
		<dc:creator>Woden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 09:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18868</guid>
		<description>zordon: Actually, the Orange Box is really much better value than most games these days. I wouldn't say you'd be paying top dollar. You get 3 good quality games for $50 - admittedly Portal is very short (but very good) and Episode 2 isn't so great, but Team Fortress 2 alone is much better than most other games you could get for $50, even for ordering online. I don't agree with their privacy policies either, but you really shouldn't accuse them of overcharging.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>zordon: Actually, the Orange Box is really much better value than most games these days. I wouldn&#8217;t say you&#8217;d be paying top dollar. You get 3 good quality games for $50 - admittedly Portal is very short (but very good) and Episode 2 isn&#8217;t so great, but Team Fortress 2 alone is much better than most other games you could get for $50, even for ordering online. I don&#8217;t agree with their privacy policies either, but you really shouldn&#8217;t accuse them of overcharging.</p>
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		<title>By: zordon</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18846</link>
		<dc:creator>zordon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 02:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18846</guid>
		<description>Just charge a reasonable fee for the price of a game, say at most $20 and then I bet they'd see a large decrease in software piracy.  $110 a game is quite obscene.  I've been saying this for years and years and years and years.  Do you know how many games for $20 dollars I would buy? (answer: a hell of a lot)  DRM is a joke of an idea and Chris Taylor, while good at your RTS design, really has no clue when it comes to marketing or software piracy in general.  I mean I read in an interview how he thinks xbox has no piracy! hah go take a look at some torrents sites Chris.

PS I can't actually bring myself to install steam &#38; its associated marketing spyware, and damn I wanta play team fort 2. but oh well, they've screwed it for me.  I'd have a hell of a lot less problem with it if I was given a choice about the information it submits back to the overlord, or they knocked the price down to a more reasnoble amount for digital distribution.  They can use me as marketing, but don't expect me to pay top dollar as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just charge a reasonable fee for the price of a game, say at most $20 and then I bet they&#8217;d see a large decrease in software piracy.  $110 a game is quite obscene.  I&#8217;ve been saying this for years and years and years and years.  Do you know how many games for $20 dollars I would buy? (answer: a hell of a lot)  DRM is a joke of an idea and Chris Taylor, while good at your RTS design, really has no clue when it comes to marketing or software piracy in general.  I mean I read in an interview how he thinks xbox has no piracy! hah go take a look at some torrents sites Chris.</p>
<p>PS I can&#8217;t actually bring myself to install steam &amp; its associated marketing spyware, and damn I wanta play team fort 2. but oh well, they&#8217;ve screwed it for me.  I&#8217;d have a hell of a lot less problem with it if I was given a choice about the information it submits back to the overlord, or they knocked the price down to a more reasnoble amount for digital distribution.  They can use me as marketing, but don&#8217;t expect me to pay top dollar as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18782</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 03:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18782</guid>
		<description>I heard about the nightmare copy protection on BioShock and decided I would never support such a thing.  So I did download the "free" version, which presented a lot fewer problems than the legitimate paying customers.  And you know what?  I didn't end up liking the game and only played it for about two hours, so I'm glad I saved my $50.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard about the nightmare copy protection on BioShock and decided I would never support such a thing.  So I did download the &#8220;free&#8221; version, which presented a lot fewer problems than the legitimate paying customers.  And you know what?  I didn&#8217;t end up liking the game and only played it for about two hours, so I&#8217;m glad I saved my $50.</p>
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		<title>By: T2A`</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18764</link>
		<dc:creator>T2A`</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 20:18:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18764</guid>
		<description>Having to constantly "rent" your own games is a seriously stupid idea.  So stupid I'm afraid I cannot put into words how immensely stupid it is.

The more PC gamers are assumed to be criminals and treated as such, the more they will act like like criminals in retaliation.  Trying to lock down a game with "advanced" protection schemes only hurts it... Unless you're Blizzard and get extremely lucky that your game is popular enough for 10 million people to throw billions into it to keep their virginity.

Take a look into Bioshock's post-launch fiasco.  Whatever protection it used caused a lot of issues with people trying to install the game, and that really pissed a lot of people off.  On the flip side, the pirated version didn't contain this protection and was thus completely free of any installation issues.  Which sounds like the better deal?  Pay $50 and be forced to jump through hoops to prove that you did actually buy it only to have it not work in the end?  Or get it for free and have it work flawlessly?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having to constantly &#8220;rent&#8221; your own games is a seriously stupid idea.  So stupid I&#8217;m afraid I cannot put into words how immensely stupid it is.</p>
<p>The more PC gamers are assumed to be criminals and treated as such, the more they will act like like criminals in retaliation.  Trying to lock down a game with &#8220;advanced&#8221; protection schemes only hurts it&#8230; Unless you&#8217;re Blizzard and get extremely lucky that your game is popular enough for 10 million people to throw billions into it to keep their virginity.</p>
<p>Take a look into Bioshock&#8217;s post-launch fiasco.  Whatever protection it used caused a lot of issues with people trying to install the game, and that really pissed a lot of people off.  On the flip side, the pirated version didn&#8217;t contain this protection and was thus completely free of any installation issues.  Which sounds like the better deal?  Pay $50 and be forced to jump through hoops to prove that you did actually buy it only to have it not work in the end?  Or get it for free and have it work flawlessly?</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18750</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 15:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18750</guid>
		<description>Brandon, unfortunately the situation you describe is very easy to take advantage of.  As soon as the protection is temporarily disabled, that gives you enough leeway to keep it permanently disabled.  Simply spoof the clock to that application so that it appears to always be under the 12 hours limit, and firewall off the application so it can never reestablish contact with its servers.  This would actually be easier than hacking through a game's code to remove the validation steps.

Nevermind the sheer annoyance of having to plan out, ahead of time, all the games you expect to be playing.  When I'm getting ready to head out on a trip, I typically just throw a lot of things together.  I don't want to have to log in to my laptop and take some meaningless steps just so I'll be able to play all of my games.  Oh, and 12 hours won't be enough.  At my job, we frequently travel for four days at a time, and not all hotels have Internet access.

All of these protection schemes just add a lot more annoyance to the legitimate purchaser of the game (who wants to be locked out of a game because Comcast inadvertently messed up your net connection and you didn't have the foresight to see the future?).  Meanwhile, they aren't really affecting the pirates at all, who have stripped out the protection mechanisms.

Either you you stick with the protection measures that we have now, which defend against all but the most inexperienced and/or moral of users, or you go to full-on secure computing a la Chris Taylor, where the game cannot function unless it is in constant communication with a server which verifies that the copy has been legitimately purchased by use of a serial number.  There isn't really a workable middle ground.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brandon, unfortunately the situation you describe is very easy to take advantage of.  As soon as the protection is temporarily disabled, that gives you enough leeway to keep it permanently disabled.  Simply spoof the clock to that application so that it appears to always be under the 12 hours limit, and firewall off the application so it can never reestablish contact with its servers.  This would actually be easier than hacking through a game&#8217;s code to remove the validation steps.</p>
<p>Nevermind the sheer annoyance of having to plan out, ahead of time, all the games you expect to be playing.  When I&#8217;m getting ready to head out on a trip, I typically just throw a lot of things together.  I don&#8217;t want to have to log in to my laptop and take some meaningless steps just so I&#8217;ll be able to play all of my games.  Oh, and 12 hours won&#8217;t be enough.  At my job, we frequently travel for four days at a time, and not all hotels have Internet access.</p>
<p>All of these protection schemes just add a lot more annoyance to the legitimate purchaser of the game (who wants to be locked out of a game because Comcast inadvertently messed up your net connection and you didn&#8217;t have the foresight to see the future?).  Meanwhile, they aren&#8217;t really affecting the pirates at all, who have stripped out the protection mechanisms.</p>
<p>Either you you stick with the protection measures that we have now, which defend against all but the most inexperienced and/or moral of users, or you go to full-on secure computing a la Chris Taylor, where the game cannot function unless it is in constant communication with a server which verifies that the copy has been legitimately purchased by use of a serial number.  There isn&#8217;t really a workable middle ground.</p>
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		<title>By: Brandon "Draxe" Rising</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18721</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon "Draxe" Rising</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 06:57:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18721</guid>
		<description>What if you had to basically RENT your games for a certain length of time. Basically a verification system that has to be connected to and then the game is released from it's protections for a certain period of time. So you buy it in the store, then install it. The day you go on your vacation and want to play it during your flight you connect and request a 12hr release and your files are verified and released. After that's up it must be connected again and verified. 

Now obviously some hacker would find a way to stop the protection being re-enabled, or extending the time period beyong what is specified. But even in Mr. Taylor's system of constant connection a hacker would eventually figure out a way to let the game play and stop it from connecting to the server. So sure you wouldn't be able to play multiplayer games but thats pretty much how it is now. For the most part servers catch people playing with fake copies because of incorrect CD keys. No system will be perfect, you can only attempt to slow the kipple (decay).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if you had to basically RENT your games for a certain length of time. Basically a verification system that has to be connected to and then the game is released from it&#8217;s protections for a certain period of time. So you buy it in the store, then install it. The day you go on your vacation and want to play it during your flight you connect and request a 12hr release and your files are verified and released. After that&#8217;s up it must be connected again and verified. </p>
<p>Now obviously some hacker would find a way to stop the protection being re-enabled, or extending the time period beyong what is specified. But even in Mr. Taylor&#8217;s system of constant connection a hacker would eventually figure out a way to let the game play and stop it from connecting to the server. So sure you wouldn&#8217;t be able to play multiplayer games but thats pretty much how it is now. For the most part servers catch people playing with fake copies because of incorrect CD keys. No system will be perfect, you can only attempt to slow the kipple (decay).</p>
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		<title>By: Cyde Weys</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18689</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyde Weys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 17:01:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18689</guid>
		<description>Molloy: The expiration couldn't happen automatically.  There's no dependable way to get the current date on a client machine.  You could always just set the date a year forward and have the copy protection expire.  No, the company would have to do it manually by releasing a patch in a year's time &#8212; and hopefully a patch that's already been made and put in code escrow upon release, because the company could always die during that year.

Of course, in a year's time, the likelihood that a pirate group will have beaten the company to effectively the same patch will be high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Molloy: The expiration couldn&#8217;t happen automatically.  There&#8217;s no dependable way to get the current date on a client machine.  You could always just set the date a year forward and have the copy protection expire.  No, the company would have to do it manually by releasing a patch in a year&#8217;s time &mdash; and hopefully a patch that&#8217;s already been made and put in code escrow upon release, because the company could always die during that year.</p>
<p>Of course, in a year&#8217;s time, the likelihood that a pirate group will have beaten the company to effectively the same patch will be high.</p>
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		<title>By: Falco64</title>
		<link>http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18669</link>
		<dc:creator>Falco64</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Mar 2008 06:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.supcomtalk.com/2008/02/27/chris-taylor-piracy/#comment-18669</guid>
		<description>Having a limited local setup where you can only play either campaign/skirmish or over the LAN but have a login service that forces you to have an account with the company in order to play multiplayer makes it so if you actually want to play one of these games against people (where it's fun unless It's Empire at War where everyone is a jerk) you need to pay for a legal key/license.
Sure, there are ways around this (not that I'll give any examples) but for the most part, you can't play online without a key.

It comes right down a simple fact.
People who want to own the game will pay for it and people who don't want to pay for the game will not.
This rule is not limited to PC gaming. It applies to all media. The PC world is just the "easliest".

PC gaming will never disappear simply because some of us will never give up our classics (like TA) but developers may stop being able to sell games when they decide to treat us all like criminals.

And one last note. I HATE having to swap out a CD every time I want to play a different game. I'm glad SupCom doesn't require it.
I think I had a point in here somewhere, but it's almost 2am and I'm losing the ability to string thoughts together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having a limited local setup where you can only play either campaign/skirmish or over the LAN but have a login service that forces you to have an account with the company in order to play multiplayer makes it so if you actually want to play one of these games against people (where it&#8217;s fun unless It&#8217;s Empire at War where everyone is a jerk) you need to pay for a legal key/license.<br />
Sure, there are ways around this (not that I&#8217;ll give any examples) but for the most part, you can&#8217;t play online without a key.</p>
<p>It comes right down a simple fact.<br />
People who want to own the game will pay for it and people who don&#8217;t want to pay for the game will not.<br />
This rule is not limited to PC gaming. It applies to all media. The PC world is just the &#8220;easliest&#8221;.</p>
<p>PC gaming will never disappear simply because some of us will never give up our classics (like TA) but developers may stop being able to sell games when they decide to treat us all like criminals.</p>
<p>And one last note. I HATE having to swap out a CD every time I want to play a different game. I&#8217;m glad SupCom doesn&#8217;t require it.<br />
I think I had a point in here somewhere, but it&#8217;s almost 2am and I&#8217;m losing the ability to string thoughts together.</p>
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